This is written mostly in response to Leanne’s comment, but I also want to share the conversation with my readers.
Leanne, I hope I didn’t give the impression that I was angered or felt insulted!
I appreciate and, I admit, quite like the emotional reasons for finding the world beautiful. I am frustrated, when looking at politics generally, that people cannot stop and think about their actions and stop fighting each other. But every person, myself included, will attack other people even if that is only expressed in a thought.
The beauty of science, as far as I am concerned, is that it explains and offers so much to us. I can’t sit here and say that there is no God (just that I find it unlikely) and I definitely cannot say that the universe was not “created”.
What I can say is that a God/creator is more likely to have set up the universe (not the Earth alone) in such a way as the rules that physics identifies and incorporates into formulae could come to exist and would lead to life. The alternative - that He created a universe, allowed it to express itself scientifically and then intervened at a critical point on one particular planet to make a creature that looks very much like every other but that has an incurable ego - is not particularly appealing to me.
The first option, the one I consider more likely, would incorporate evolution in a theistic universe; the second option would create a theistic universe that requires intervention that would suggest active cruelty on the part of the God that allows the random acts of violence that the news makes us so familiar with to happen.
I have to say I am far more comfortable and less scared of a non-theistic world. If there is a God who allows the cruelty typefied by the actions of hostage-takers in the Middle East, then He is not one I would like to meet. If He doesn’t exist or is not able to intervene then He is far more acceptable to me.
On apes, we did not evolve from apes. We share a common ancestor who’s evolutionary line split at some point in the past. This meant that those animals that lived in coastal areas evolved to take advantage of the sea’s bounty and, eventually, became us. Those that remained in forested areas became more suited (as other apes are) to living in trees. The ‘out-of-Africa’ evidence suggests that humanity migrated from Africa by following the coasts. No major religion’s creation texts even hint at this.
The Guardian newspaper once said “And on the [insert day number here, I cannot remember which it was] day God created the Earth and all the fossils in it”. The question is asked, why would the fossils be placed there in a Christian creationist reality?
Science has an answer to your points: Flowers smell sweet because nectar is sweet - that is what attracts pollinating insects. Pollinating insects, in some cases, drink the nectar. Bad smells are not likely to arise in this situation. Having said that, there is a flower (the Rafflesia arnoldii) that smells of rotting meat (more info). We also like sweet smells for the same reason as bees - sweet food is nutritious and sustains. We think of sugar as being bad for us not because it is naturally bad for us but because we refine the sugar and eat it in unnaturally large quantities.
Science also predicts there to be few solar systems with planets suitable for life. The range of habitats on Earth, however, that are populated suggests that life could survive elsewhere easily. The real question is whether life can evolve in those situations in the first place. I expect there will be life found elsewhere than on Earth and not necessarily on planets like Earth (though of course planets like Earth may well host life too). The exploration of space is one of the things that I think humanity has a moral obligation to start with zeal. Only when we have realised (en masse) the relative insignificance of Earth on the galactic (and indeed universal) scale, will people stop fighting petty wars.
The beauty of evolution, though, is that the chance of human-like life evolving even on a carbon-copy (interestingly carbon-copy suggests something about the carbon-based life…) of Earth is ridiculously small. Earth has hosted life for 3billion years (3,000,000,000 years) and in that time humans have only evolved once. Throughout the intervening period any creature you can imagine has already evolved and evolution hasn’t stopped - it is carrying on right now and more creatures, that you cannot imagine, will evolve in the future. Human-like life, Vulcans from Star Trek, are not only unlikely - it would be facile to expect them to exist at all.
You say “now the earth for its survival would try to evolve in ways to rid itself of its infestation- disease maybe” but the Earth does not evolve - it hosts an amazingly complex ecosystem but of itself is not alive. The aim of life (and the inevitable result of evolution) is that the fittest survive. If a disease killed every creature it infected (or all of a species) it would quickly run out of hosts to infect and would cause its own extinction. For this reason evolution puts brakes on the success (depending on your point of view) of a given virus or deadly bacteria. In fact most viruses and bacteria do not kill as an intention but as an unfortunate side-effect if they kill at all. Evolution takes a long time so evolutionary processes have not been able to keep up with humanities ability to kill other species. The current epoch is one of only a few times when there have been very few massive predators. Obvious creatures spring to mind like gorgonopsid, Tyrannosaurus Rex, giant birds and the sabre-tooth tiger. Humanity is not the ultimate creature, but our collective egos allow us to think we are permanently damaging the planet - in geological time our impact is negligible.
Your final comment about Darwin being taught as fact and that it could remove people’s hope is wrong for two reasons:
- Stopping something from being taught as fact (which it is) because you don’t like it is not a balanced way to teach science. You may as well say that you don’t want history taught because it wasn’t all nice. Evolution is an accurate description of biology and, while there are an extremely small number of scientists who have doubts about the theory, there is no alternative scientific theory that proposes a viable alternative via known mechanisms. The vast majority of scientists believe the theory is sound.
- Evolution, and the supposed implication that there is no God, does not remove hope. Hope is something that people can only genuinely have if they believe they are in control of their destiny. If one thinks they are subject to the whim of an omnipotent God who, evidence suggests, is not entirely benign, then what hope is there then?










October 15th, 2005 at 4:06 am
dear Gavin, As I said my purpose in this all was to make us think and I have to say YOU have made me think more than anyone EVER, thank you. and if the sappy novel I wrote before has made the impression I am a person who only likes things nice it is missleading. I am actually very hash in my views, though very empathic and think things are too sugar coated already especially in history, I prefer to know the ugly facts, and would rather see THIS taught than dates and names. I am after all a cynic ( in the true Diogenes sense) so much so I am known for wearing a shirt or pair of shoes till duct tape is all that holds them together (perhaps I do this to protest the fact I am a very pretty girl- and yes I have friends) I am on a constant search for truth and can not cram 12 years of history, philosophy and religon onto your blog. One thing I have learned from this is - a student I am but not yet a teacher. Though I cant say you have made me change my opinion in any way, sorry, you made some very good points, you have made me rethink my approach. Science is true, it can explain the how of everything but never really the WHY reason for life. And to me the Earth IS alive in the sense it is made from the same elements as all creation and life can only come from life. Here are my closing arguments and the only scientific proof I can reason for creation. It seems the very theory you list above to be least appealing is the one I find most true. ( sorry I have to involve religon now because it is the foundation I build my belief upon and what I have found to be- in my search- truth) The bible says God (this is not his name it is his being) created the earth exactly as you have said, in a way it was free to evolve and express itself scientificly. (skip a few parts) when he saw how beautiful and good it was, he made a garden for himself then created a man to live in this garden giving it to him as a gift- the garden not the earth-his purpose was to rule over it and enjoy its fruit. This man was also given the gift of free will to make intelligant decisions for himself, which made some angels mad because they were not given free will nor rule over anything when they had been serving God all along. It does not say where this garden was located-Africa? maybe. these angels hate man for what God has given them and persuaded him to make a decision against the one thing God had asked them not to do. For this reason they had to leave the garden because now they knew they really were free to do as they wanted, and now there was also evil. Man and Evil were sent out into the Earth. Why? because it was now in their hearts to do what they wanted. But man had also known good so there is always an inner battle. The Angels who also went against God were given the earth. Why? because it is what they wanted. So you see God is not cruel but fair. You can follow his plan or make one for your self. But you see the Earth was not designed for evil or man, neither of these evolved on their own but were introduced. Which is my only piece of scientific evidence. If we agree everything has a reason for existance. what is mans? If say you remove all Birds from the Earth everything would eventually fall apart in a chain reaction because THEY have a purpose they control insect population, are food for other creatures and so on. Now remove all humans what happens? nothing. the earth goes on. We have no natural preditors and the plants and animals we feed on have a cycle of their own. Now there is no Evil also, everything goes according to the plan assinged to it, it does not have free will. a bird will always do bird things as a law. now what happens in science when we introduce a species to where it does not belong? with no natural preditors it multiplies, spreads out and destroys the balance of nature. Add evil to the picture and you have the world today. Has God abandoned us completly? No but he respects your freedom and he expects you will make alot of mistakes this he forgives. why do horrible things and suffering happen? Because of the evil and the fallen angels who hate us. Can God stop it? Yes but it would be in violation of your freedom to chose his way or your own. And as long as there is good he will not interfear. When only evil is left he will bring it to an end. So according to God what you see on the news will only get worse.(Add here what I mentioned about the 3 related religons) but this is the hope he offers us that if we trust his way is best we will be given a second chance at a life without evil the way he had designed it in his garden. sorry this is a very long summary in a very brief version I hope I made at least one valid point as you made many. And again thank you for making me think. I hope I in some way I made you think too even if it is only that I am very insane. I will continue to read your blog but this can not go on forever. PS. because I beleive in God does not mean I dont think George Bush is an idiot.
October 15th, 2005 at 11:48 am
Christ, how do you expect me to read that, Leanne? Ever thought of using the enter button to space some of that out?
And are you sure God’s a ‘he’?
October 15th, 2005 at 4:20 pm
Blaspheming
God is a ‘He’ in the same way as we are human - not “he” or “she” and not “huwoman” - it’s okay to say “he” if something is genderless or you don’t know. It’s just feminists that have hijacked it!
Thanks Leanne, for your comments. I agree we have reached a natural end to the discussion and that we must agree to disagree on the fundamental points.
October 15th, 2005 at 5:49 pm
I say “HE” beacuse he is refered to as father. And I already said Im flawed in my writing abilities. thank you so much again.
October 17th, 2005 at 1:01 am
Here’s some more food for thought.
October 20th, 2005 at 8:24 pm
Leanne thoughts on this debate.
October 20th, 2005 at 8:49 pm
Thanks for the link! How did you find that?
October 22nd, 2005 at 6:37 pm
Ha she’s my stalker
I love her blog she’s a fantastic girl