
Nontheism / Atheism
I was going to stay away from discussion of religion for a while but Mark Steyn has provoked my typing fingers again.
In this week’s issue of The Spectator he writes an article entitled ‘O come, all ye faithless’ and makes the single most common error of monotheists. Apparently it is “hard to deny that the fear of an afterlife where one will be judged has likely kept hundreds of millions from committing acts of aggression”.
To that I would say “Maybe in the past”. A modern rationalist would not deliberately destroy the atmosphere for the next generation whether they are childless of not. A moral person is not necessarily a religious person, and certainly not necessarily someone who worships a monotheistic God. Take ten Christians, ten Muslims, ten Jews and ten Hindus and I would guess (oh, politically incorrect stereotype coming, sorry) that the ten Hindus would have more grounded, rational and laudable morals.
Steyn then describes the optimism of the relatively religious US (61% were optimistic about the future a year after 9/11) against the pessimism of the relatively secular Canada (43%), the UK (42%), France (29%), Russia (23%) and Germany (15%). But these figures show other truths. France, Russia and Germany all suffer from economic malhealth which could account for a large proportion, and maybe pessimism is more healthy than an irrational faith in a better future?
Apparently nontheists are less motivated than monoethestic religious people too, but there’s no evidence of that. Rationalism does not necessarily make someone immoral or allow someone to behave in a less considerate manner. I am worried that humanity may need to believe in divine punishment in order to do good - I hope it is not true, and I doubt it is.










December 19th, 2005 at 12:18 am
well americans ARE stupid… maybe ignorance IS bliss.
“I am worried that humanity may need to believe in divine punishment in order to do good - I hope it is not true, and I doubt it is. ”
I hope its not true too, and alot of people who claim to be religous seem to be confused by what makes one moral. also morals seem to change with each generation, not always for the better. Im concerned with Americas youth and their views on sex.
brings to mind the old philosophical question….can a moral man remain moral in an immoral world?
December 19th, 2005 at 3:50 pm
“well americans ARE stupid”
I don’t think that’s fair. American’s do have more to look forward too. Their economy is flexible and ready to deal with the challenges of the future and social mobility is far higher than in Europe. Moreover, America can still look forward to increasing power and influence in the world over the next few years at least. As Gav says, the economic outlook for Europe is not so bright and I believe that the relevance of Europe in the world is going to diminish.
That said, if religion is the key then there is the question of why the British more optimistic than the less secular French.
Also:
“[it is] hard to deny that the fear of an afterlife where one will be judged has likely kept hundreds of millions from committing acts of aggression”
Doesn’t really explain the crusades, or the Spanish inquisition, or the pogroms/holocaust, or the relentless killing of Protestants by Catholics and vice versa from Henry VIII up to NI today.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
mark, I am american so I can say we are stupid. and if Europe wants a better economic future they should follow the U.S. lead and sell all major companies to china and export jobs to mexico, the people should buy everything and everything they can not afford on credit then file bankruptcy so they can shop more, if this fails you can try and convince teenage girls to start having children to as many diffrent men as they can and make the government pay for everything. oh… and watch more television.
December 20th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
Thank fuck - rationality pervades in America.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4545822.stm
No teaching of ID in schools! I fully respect the Christian world-based view as a paradigm for ethical interactions - but not for an intelligent explanation for the world around us!
December 20th, 2005 at 11:06 pm
Leanne - you’re so cynical!
The US economy does well because it is not highly regulated….
But maybe the teenage pregnancy does have some merit? The UK has more teenage pregnancies than the rest of the EU and the better economy…
December 22nd, 2005 at 12:30 am
et tu jonz?
September 20th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
Gav,
Perhaps with these views you can make a policy difference for your party and support the abolition of faith schools as well as pushing for the disestablishment of the CoE. When is the Tory party going to see that libertarianism and rationality (not tradition and ingrained superstition) are the collective way forward.
September 20th, 2006 at 2:06 pm
Mike, I wish I knew.
I haven’t yet gotten around to investigating the Secular Society, but I think I ought to: Faith schools represent a clear and present danger…