Comments on: Libertarianism vs. Totalitarianism http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/ English, Rationalist and Liberal Conservative Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:49:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Gav http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1160 Thu, 12 Jan 2006 18:07:35 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1160 Without dragging this down to a theological discussion a sin will stop you from going to heaven unless Jesus (or Priests on his and God's behalf) forgives you -- this requires a desire to be forgiven. The punishment dished out by God and his followers in religious scripture is almost always draconian and is often death. More to the point, the ultimate punishment is damnation -- for any sin. I like your mention of fraud and I agree that as a general rule, with few exceptions, the length of the sentence doesn't necessarily suggest society's opinion of a particular crime while it does influence the actions of those prepared to commit crime. Thank you. Without dragging this down to a theological discussion a sin will stop you from going to heaven unless Jesus (or Priests on his and God’s behalf) forgives you — this requires a desire to be forgiven. The punishment dished out by God and his followers in religious scripture is almost always draconian and is often death. More to the point, the ultimate punishment is damnation — for any sin.

I like your mention of fraud and I agree that as a general rule, with few exceptions, the length of the sentence doesn’t necessarily suggest society’s opinion of a particular crime while it does influence the actions of those prepared to commit crime.

Thank you.

]]> by: mark http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1157 Thu, 12 Jan 2006 15:09:45 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1157 I don't know that I would assume murder to be less serious than burglary if it carriesd a shorter sentence, however people who had the desire to commit crime would respond to the lesser disincentive. For instance, a burglar might prefer to kill a homeowner rather than risk the higher prison sentence of getting caught. In that case the respective sentences aren't telling us which is the more heinous crime, only which is less tolerated by the rest of society. The only time I can think of that we might equate wrong-doing to the level of sentencing is for crimes that are not commonly understood, like insurance fraud. There is one other important factor in determining what sentence a crime deserves is the likelyhood of capture and conviction. For instance, if stealing money from your employers till is considered equally heinous to defrauding your employer by agreeing to work and then not doing so, then all other things being equal you should recieve a stricter sentence for not working becasue it is harder to prove. That doesn't happen, indicating other factors are involved. I'm not sure the RC church treats all sins as equal - something about an eye for an eye springs to mind. I don’t know that I would assume murder to be less serious than burglary if it carriesd a shorter sentence, however people who had the desire to commit crime would respond to the lesser disincentive. For instance, a burglar might prefer to kill a homeowner rather than risk the higher prison sentence of getting caught.

In that case the respective sentences aren’t telling us which is the more heinous crime, only which is less tolerated by the rest of society. The only time I can think of that we might equate wrong-doing to the level of sentencing is for crimes that are not commonly understood, like insurance fraud.

There is one other important factor in determining what sentence a crime deserves is the likelyhood of capture and conviction. For instance, if stealing money from your employers till is considered equally heinous to defrauding your employer by agreeing to work and then not doing so, then all other things being equal you should recieve a stricter sentence for not working becasue it is harder to prove. That doesn’t happen, indicating other factors are involved.

I’m not sure the RC church treats all sins as equal - something about an eye for an eye springs to mind.

]]> by: Gav http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1119 Sun, 08 Jan 2006 03:28:13 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1119 I think so... Although some would argue (including, I believe, the Catholic Church) that any sin is as serious as any other... In which case why do we punish differently? In the Old Testament God says that the punishment for working on the Sabbath should be <strong>death</strong>! I think so… Although some would argue (including, I believe, the Catholic Church) that any sin is as serious as any other… In which case why do we punish differently?

In the Old Testament God says that the punishment for working on the Sabbath should be death!

]]> by: leanne http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1114 Sun, 08 Jan 2006 00:39:09 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1114 but isnt it sad that we need someone to tell us that at all but isnt it sad that we need someone to tell us that at all

]]> by: Gav http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1111 Sat, 07 Jan 2006 21:31:32 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1111 No, but if the government set the sentence for murder as 2 weeks in prison while burglary was 1 month, you and everyone else would assume that the burglary is the more serious crime. No, but if the government set the sentence for murder as 2 weeks in prison while burglary was 1 month, you and everyone else would assume that the burglary is the more serious crime.

]]> by: leanne http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1109 Sat, 07 Jan 2006 21:09:20 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1109 The only reason I say that is because muder is against the law and people still do it...but The reason I have never killed anyone is not just because it is illegal...understand? The only reason I say that is because muder is against the law and people still do it…but The reason I have never killed anyone is not just because it is illegal…understand?

]]> by: James G http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1107 Sat, 07 Jan 2006 20:31:32 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1107 Leanne, I'm sure I'm picking up on a previous thread but when you said: <em>really laws stop no one from doing anything</em> I think one function that laws provide, particularly in a very large country, is to indicate to everyone what the boundaries of accetable behaviour are to the society in which one lives. And the enforcement and sentencing based upon those laws doubly indicates the level of acceptability of that behaviour. Just thinking out loud...I've been thinking a lot about this... Leanne,
I’m sure I’m picking up on a previous thread but when you said:

really laws stop no one from doing anything

I think one function that laws provide, particularly in a very large country, is to indicate to everyone what the boundaries of accetable behaviour are to the society in which one lives. And the enforcement and sentencing based upon those laws doubly indicates the level of acceptability of that behaviour.

Just thinking out loud…I’ve been thinking a lot about this…

]]> by: leanne http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1105 Sat, 07 Jan 2006 15:43:48 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1105 If I am "The mom".....that would make you my Daddy jonz. If I am “The mom”…..that would make you my Daddy jonz.

]]> by: j0nz http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1104 Sat, 07 Jan 2006 15:31:24 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1104 I'm a totalitarian centrist ... Maybe leanne could be my dictator(ess?!) I’m a totalitarian centrist … Maybe leanne could be my dictator(ess?!)

]]> by: leanne http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1102 Sat, 07 Jan 2006 01:58:48 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/06/libertarianism/#comment-1102 well thank you for the gentle explination, I was alittle worried you would attack me, and I'm glad you used the word instructed instead of ordered. The only thing I would change is..though I do feel God has ultimate control....I do not have the power to inforce it, free will is a gift . and really laws stop no one from doing anything. so maybe in my little totalitarian world the only rule would be the golden one, and instead of my secret police going around making sure everyone was being good...they would be looking for good to do. (now who sounds niave) well thank you for the gentle explination,
I was alittle worried you would attack me, and I’m glad you used the word instructed instead of ordered.
The only thing I would change is..though I do feel God has ultimate control….I do not have the power to inforce it,
free will is a gift . and really laws stop no one from doing anything.
so maybe in my little totalitarian world the only rule would be the golden one, and instead of my secret police going around making sure everyone was being good…they would be looking for good to do.
(now who sounds niave)

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