Comments on: Education reforms and wealth demography http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/ English, Rationalist and Liberal Conservative Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:23:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: The Ink Slinger http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1362 Sun, 29 Jan 2006 23:25:19 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1362 Hear hear, Gav. It seems to us that selection, and the higher standards from which the selectee would benefit, is statistically far more likely to lift them out of their "disadvanted" situation than, say, a career in football or a day or two in the sun (pun intended) as a topless model, which seem to be the preferred methods currently. Hear hear, Gav.

It seems to us that selection, and the higher standards from which the selectee would benefit, is statistically far more likely to lift them out of their “disadvanted” situation than, say, a career in football or a day or two in the sun (pun intended) as a topless model, which seem to be the preferred methods currently.

]]> by: Gav http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1354 Sat, 28 Jan 2006 19:49:26 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1354 Excellent Alec! Excellent Alec!

]]> by: Alec http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1353 Sat, 28 Jan 2006 18:31:29 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1353 Couldn't help posting this quote from Simon Heffer on the subject of John Prescott: "He is also, of course, totally, completely incompetent and utterly, graphically stupid. If ever there was a testament to the rigour and good sense of the 11-plus - which Mr Prescott famously failed - he is it." <a>The Telegraph</a> Couldn’t help posting this quote from Simon Heffer on the subject of John Prescott:

“He is also, of course, totally, completely incompetent and utterly, graphically stupid. If ever there was a testament to the rigour and good sense of the 11-plus - which Mr Prescott famously failed - he is it.”

The Telegraph

]]> by: Gav http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1350 Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:18:01 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1350 Hi Sick Are you sure you're talking about the same Tories? The party has the largest membership of any party (which means it cannot be snobs only), the party was the major party responsible, sadly, for the closure of grammar schools and the abolition of the 11+... And you've done it again for the poor: "Not to mention shoving the majority of their kids into secondary-moderns". A secondary modern is not where kids are shoved, it's where children who failed the 11+ (which is academically discriminatory, not socially) are taught. In previous posts I've said that the 11+ should not be the final decision on grammar vs. secondary modern. And on "I left university in the eighties to go straight onto the unemployment lines" -- presumably you'd now be on the incapacity benefit instead because, unlike in the 1980's, the are more people out of work now than at any time since records began in 1971. Not only are the Tories of Australia far more right-wing than the Tories of the UK (from what one can gather in any case) but you're also comparing a party which largely no longer exists. There is no class-designation for party-political split in England these days (just look at Blair's education and background) and the Tories who advocated draconian social treatment which, in some cases, was worse than the current administration (which is saying something, believe me -- we cannot protest near parliament these days) are no more. Hi Sick

Are you sure you’re talking about the same Tories? The party has the largest membership of any party (which means it cannot be snobs only), the party was the major party responsible, sadly, for the closure of grammar schools and the abolition of the 11+…

And you’ve done it again for the poor: “Not to mention shoving the majority of their kids into secondary-moderns”. A secondary modern is not where kids are shoved, it’s where children who failed the 11+ (which is academically discriminatory, not socially) are taught. In previous posts I’ve said that the 11+ should not be the final decision on grammar vs. secondary modern.

And on “I left university in the eighties to go straight onto the unemployment lines” — presumably you’d now be on the incapacity benefit instead because, unlike in the 1980’s, the are more people out of work now than at any time since records began in 1971.

Not only are the Tories of Australia far more right-wing than the Tories of the UK (from what one can gather in any case) but you’re also comparing a party which largely no longer exists. There is no class-designation for party-political split in England these days (just look at Blair’s education and background) and the Tories who advocated draconian social treatment which, in some cases, was worse than the current administration (which is saying something, believe me — we cannot protest near parliament these days) are no more.

]]> by: Sick of snobs http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1349 Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:57:27 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1349 What a load of self-deluding bullshit. The tories did nothing for the poor except leave their children in leaking-roofed classrooms and bully thousands of teachers into leaving the job. Not to mention shoving the majority of their kids into secondary-moderns, where they were trained to see themselves as failures. Like thousands of graduates, I left university in the eighties to go straight onto the unemployment lines, where we were taunted as lazy and stupid by that utter piece of sh*t Tebbit. I passed the 11-plus but because I went to a comprehensive I now have to listen to arrogant little middle-class tossers telling me what a knuckle-dragging illiterate waste of space I am. So I took my bachelors degree, my two masters degrees and my skills to Australia, where I was welcomed and treated with respect as an educated person. I will never lose my absolute hatred for the Tory party and what it put me, and people far more vulnerable than me through during the 1980's. I vote Tory here though, because they are not the same as the UK ones - public-school snobs who pathetically despise state-educated people like me, who are their intellectual, if not their educational superiors. What a load of self-deluding bullshit. The tories did nothing for the poor except leave their children in leaking-roofed classrooms and bully thousands of teachers into leaving the job. Not to mention shoving the majority of their kids into secondary-moderns, where they were trained to see themselves as failures. Like thousands of graduates, I left university in the eighties to go straight onto the unemployment lines, where we were taunted as lazy and stupid by that utter piece of sh*t Tebbit. I passed the 11-plus but because I went to a comprehensive I now have to listen to arrogant little middle-class tossers telling me what a knuckle-dragging illiterate waste of space I am. So I took my bachelors degree, my two masters degrees and my skills to Australia, where I was welcomed and treated with respect as an educated person. I will never lose my absolute hatred for the Tory party and what it put me, and people far more vulnerable than me through during the 1980’s. I vote Tory here though, because they are not the same as the UK ones - public-school snobs who pathetically despise state-educated people like me, who are their intellectual, if not their educational superiors.

]]> by: Gav http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1348 Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:34:19 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1348 I don't think the Tories have historically set out to help the poor to help themselves (though tuition fees certainly hurt), but I <em>do</em> think it was a natural result of Tory policy... I am going to go over Labour's new socialism shortly... Suffice to say that environmentalism is the new socialism. I don’t think the Tories have historically set out to help the poor to help themselves (though tuition fees certainly hurt), but I do think it was a natural result of Tory policy…

I am going to go over Labour’s new socialism shortly… Suffice to say that environmentalism is the new socialism.

]]> by: The 'Flee http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1342 Sat, 28 Jan 2006 02:30:53 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1342 I don't entirely subscribe to your analysis regarding the tories helping the poor to better themselves... I *DO* agree with your comments regarding "new labour". But we're not exactly talking about a socialist government here, are we? I don’t entirely subscribe to your analysis regarding the tories helping the poor to better themselves…

I *DO* agree with your comments regarding “new labour”. But we’re not exactly talking about a socialist government here, are we?

]]> by: Della http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1321 Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:41:17 +0000 http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2006/01/27/education-reforms-and-wealth-demography/#comment-1321 Now I have a grandchild, I have every intention of paying for extra, private tuition for her; something which I was unable to do for my own children, being from a low income working class married household. I do not take holidays or go out drinking and I consider her education to be very good value for money. My problem is, I know that maths and english will serve her well for the future, but its looking like she only needs to learn to play the triangle to make advances in New Labour world Now I have a grandchild, I have every intention of paying for extra, private tuition for her; something which I was unable to do for my own children, being from a low income working class married household.

I do not take holidays or go out drinking and I consider her education to be very good value for money.

My problem is, I know that maths and english will serve her well for the future, but its looking like she only needs to learn to play the triangle to make advances in New Labour world

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