Gav's View

Why bother about Hamas! They are festering sons of bitches of the worse kind! Everyone knows that they were the ones who organized the bombing.

But BNP is a dicey proposition. I am deeply suspicious of it. If they ever come into power I think they could easily deteriorate into another version of Nazism.

Overall I find myself in agreement to your views but the thing is that you have to get rid of your “outsider-phobia”. Ultimately the world is one, and if humanity is going to surive this century it will only do so if we learn to live in peace and harmony.

So BNP Is bad just as Hamas is bad. Please don’t feel bad about it. I would rather have George Bush type of capitalism and conservatism. I am a great supported of Bush. But BNP is surely not conservative or capitaist it is outright racist.

Goodness me, of course they are. What I mean is that by supporting the BNP, people are sending a message to Labour and the Conservative Party that their policies alienate them.

The BNP spins lies and spreads hate (and some truth, of course) to garner support from people who, in any other situation, would think more carefully and would vote differently.

I strongly doubt that the English would ever allow things to go as far as Nazism, though Labour is making a lot of the running… (Enabling Act etc).

Gav, I have thought of voting BNP as a protest vote against the awful three main parties, but now I have come to thinking there is no point because they wouldn’t get the message anyway.

Personally I am more scared of the New Labour party winning the next election than if the BNP were to win it, New Labour are the more dangerous people. They want to lock people up without trial, stuff their rich friends into perminant positions of power, Blair gets involved in international conflicts everytime he gets the chance, and he is putting legislation through parliament that is ending British democracy, ID cards, etc etc.
The BNP are used by the media as a distraction for the real enemy of this country, the NewLabour party.

I don’t think the BNP would end up being like Nazis at all, I think they just want Britain to be isolationist, stop all immigration and mind our own business.
I’ve never voted BNP btw.

You say you wouldn’t mind people voting BNP if that makes the main parties get back in touch with there base, but its a pretty fkin poor show if they need that kind of wake up call. You’re effectively admitting that the main political parties don’t represent the majority white British people.
And what is Cameron doing about that, nothing, infact he is making it worse.

I also saw Griffin on skynews, I thought he did a good job actually, better than I expected.

I’m sorry, but the BNP’s attitude to ‘repatriation’ and some of the comments of its lower membership give me the willies. I would rather we were in a single-party Labour-only nation than the BNP get a single stint at it.

That said, I think you’re right. It is an awful show that the BNP is needed to remind Labour and the Conservatives what’s important in people’s lives. And yet still, today, Labour spokespeople are publicly reassuring themselves that a vote for the BNP is a protest vote and not some inherent sympathy among the electorate for the BNP’s policies. Nothing is more likely to annoy a voter than that.

What Labour should be saying is “Yes, we understand people’s concerns, we have lost control of the borders and some of our priorities have been a bit skewed.” Then they should do something about it. Their current attitude stinks of Tory 1990.

but we should not forget how the New Labour party first pandered to the IRA, and now are cosying up to some very distastful Islamic groups. For example the guy Ken livingstone invited to London Al-Qaradawi who believes gays should be hanged and wife beating is ok, etc..

Its not impossible that other parties become worse than the BNP at some point.

Look at the way NewLabour are trying to control the Police and using them to promote Labour policies.
They are dangerous people obsessed with control.

“I strongly doubt that the English would ever allow things to go as far as Nazism, though Labour is making a lot of the running… (Enabling Act etc). ”
–
Gav,
UK does have a great tradition of democracy but unfortunately for the last five or so decades UK has been bitten by the socialist bug. Mrs. Thatcher did reverse the trend for sometime, but now the communists are back in force. And the conservatives are too weak to stop the communists and socialists and the liberal riffraff from implementing their devious agenda.

In this political situation is allowed to go on then many would be conservatives may find no alternative but to embrace the BNP. And I think Dave has already done that. That is how it happened in Germany people who were opposed to socialists and communists alligned themselves with the Nazis, not knowing that they were in for.
So the danger to UK politics is there, but it is not so acute yet.

I think the UK’s electoral system which is biased against coalitions protects against this slide to extremism. When everyone realises that Labour is wrong, a small but enthused number of people can bring about a change in regime.

Dave, you’re right about the dangers posed by Labour. The difference, though, is that Labour’s support for violent and evil men is done, I believe, with the heart in the right place. They genuinely believe that appeasing terrorists is justified if a ceasefire can be brought about. As you can imagine, I don’t agree and I can see that you don’t.

The BNP has policies which send chills down your spine in and of themselves. The spectre of a British government rounding people up based on skin colour and telling them to get out of their homes and their country is more shocking than an errant Mayor inviting murderers over for tea.

Indian, I have not embaced the BNP, but its a long time before the next main election, I wont be voting for Conservatives if lead by Cameron.
I don’t think the BNP are anything like as bad as Nazis really though, the MSM exaggerate because it is controlled by NewLabour supporting Marxists, they are against any kind of nationalists even BJP.

Gav, I don’t think Labour have given up violence at all, I can’t believe you say it, the Labour party has many members who support violent dictators like Castro & Chavez, many others support violence against Israel and the US. Galloway even called for attacks on British troops in support of Saddam Hussein! Yes he was kicked out for that, but just because he is the only one with the guts to say this stuff in public doesn’t mean he is the only one who thinks it.
I used to be part of a club, and once a nice socialist guy, you would think one of the nicest people you would ever meet, just after 9/11 terrorists attacks started saying some very vicious things against Americans and how he’d like to “get a job shooting them”. Since I have US friends I did not take kindly to this attitude.
And anyway it depends on your definition of evil men, some would say IRA had an evil side while others think they are freedom fighters, some people even think Osama bin Laden is one of the good guys.
Some Old Labour people soft on Communism didn’t see Stalin as evil at all, he was doing what was necessary in the face of the US threat!

The BNP have given up on the idea of forced repatriation and even if they hadn’t it would be totally impractical to attempt to do such a thing. As I said before I know someone who claimed he was going to vote BNP who has a black wife, whether he did vote in the end or not I don’t know. I don’t think that is unusual either, on skynews they were interviewing people from Dagenham I think, and there were women claiming they had some support for the BNP even though they had mixed race young kids or babies. Clearly they cannot be racist against their own children, something serious is going on here.

Some compelling thoughts.

You’re right, socialists do often have illogical, dangerous and violent views. But the BNP’s founders and, I assume, the majority of its membership, believe in the superiority or the “indigenous people”. Whether or not it’s impractical, that would be their ultimate goal.

Blind optimism allowed Hitler to perpetrate his crimes against humanity, let’s not do the same for the BNP.

On the voters with coloured or mixed race children/relatives, I think that their desperation at having no electable mainstream party has pushed them into an irrational choice…

But, it was not blind optimism that allowed Hitler to do his evil. As Indian Capitalist commented earlier the rise of the Nazis was mainly because Germans feared Communists/extreme socialists and Nazis were considered ‘the’ alternative.

I don’t think people considering supporting the BNP are being optimistic.

A very interesting debate. Certainly Dave is right when he says that the BNP have abandoned the idea of forced repatriation, it is most certainly not their policy and hasnt been for some years now. The founders of the BNP (ie total, utter nutballs like John Tyndall) are almost all gone now to the NF and the BPP. Griffin has been very carefully distancing himself from the loony elements within his party as he has rightly calculated that they are a huge electoral liability and will prevent them ever becomin a serious force. Pragmatism rather than conviction I do not doubt, but still worthy of note.

Dave also is right in one respect. It’s a bit rich warning us all of the blood-dripping-horror threat of what the BNP *might* do when compared with the drip by drip Police State that New-Labour actually ARE introducing…

Not “might” — would.