The EU has been high on the right-wing blogosphere’s agenda this week…
A couple of posts you should read on why the EU ain’t for us:
A little prediction for you:
- The, frankly, vast numbers of eastern European immigrants will be remembered as the beginning of the end of Britain’s involvement with the EU.
I support Poland’s membership because I believe it is not only in the interest of Polish people (if not the country), but also because it is in the spirit of the EU… That spirit, though, is one of the things that is wrong with it, and one of the reasons we should leave!
July 3rd, 2006 at 2:16 am
I’m a little perplexed as to what the issue with the Poles actually is. Would you mind telling me?
Whilst I’m keen to see us having control of our borders and immigration, I don’t have a problem with those who don’t pose a threat to the economy, culture, security or values of this country. The Poles I’ve come across (I live in a well-known tourist town which has a large population of eastern European seasonal workers) certainly don’t seem to give rise to any concerns where those factors matter.
The best thing about them is, they largely reflect our own values and culture and strive to make the most of an honest work ethic whilst they’re here. They don’t impose themselves on the local community and they certainly don’t have a bloc mentality, as some other migrant communities do.
I think we’ll find we do need them- you’ll need them- more than is realised at the moment and that they could be a great asset to our nation.
Surely you, particularly as a Conservative councillor, should have realised how much of a crucial role these people could play when it comes to voting in local elections? With 97% of Poles being Catholic and having strong traditionalist, conservative values (which, by the looks of your blog, is the strand of Conservatism you represent), aren’t they a portion of the electorate that you should be mobilising in a forthcoming election? It would seem foolish to ignore them.
Another note- they aren’t ‘immigrants’, as you assert. They are now European citizens, whether you like it or not.
Otherwise, I share you scepticism of the European Union.
July 3rd, 2006 at 4:52 am
Vast numbers?Why don’t you give some real figures.
There has been a Polish community in Britain for a long time.
One that had to put up with a lot of racial abuse in the days before the Race Relation Acts.
English has always been a popular language to learn in Poland.
July 3rd, 2006 at 10:28 pm
I’m sorry Tony, why are you trying to pretend there are not vast numbers?
3,000 has arrived in Crewe, a town of 48,000, by January this year (BBC NewsNight)
BBC Suffolk talks of the “huge rise” in the numbers in the Polish community.
Southampton City Council estimate they have 20,000 Polish immigrants.
And now the point, I don’t dislike the Poles, any particular Pole or the fact that they now have the chance of a better life, I just accept, as more people are beginning to, that immigration has reached a point now where people are getting concerned for their children’s ability to buy a home.
The last thing England needs now is more people to increase the cost of housing further. Unlike most other markets, the housing market is finite and the demand will continue to outstrip supply without more people to add to it.
Yes Poles share our cultural values (if not our culture) and yes that’s something I welcome, but I am not (James) a traditionalist as I think you would see if you read a bit more.
In fact, if I am quite honest, I suspect I could upset a large proportion of the more traditional Tories with my feelings about their agressive Christian evangelism and the racist and homophobic rhetoric that inevitably comes with it.
Finally, I didn’t mean to belittle those Poles who have come here (obviously to work as they’re not yet able to claim benefits — so they’re not spongers etc) and I don’t think of them as immigrants or in any way taking advantage. I am positively certain that in the same or similar conditions I would do the same thing — go for a better life.
July 4th, 2006 at 3:33 am
The debate about immigration is highly emotive and the word vast could give the impression of numbers in the millions.What is the overall number of Poles coming to Britain?How many of these Poles are temporary migrants,returning after doing some seasonal labour.
I have read reports of people returning after a few weeks because they could not find work,lack of ability to speak good English being one reason.
By the way,would you support the disestablishment of the Church of England?
July 4th, 2006 at 9:46 am
Tony,
I don’t think it matters what the numbers are etc. it is the impression that ordinary people get. The opening of borders to the EU means that, rightly, we have no idea how many people there are here from other EU countries.
RE: The Church of England I have no interest whatsoever in its working or any of its work as an atheist.
July 4th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
The impression ordinary people get is sometimes wrong and if it is not properly corrected can lead to dangerous situations.
The Church of England is the state church not a private organisation. It is quite willing to impose its views on others including you.
July 4th, 2006 at 11:15 pm
It might be the state church constitutionally and traditionally, but there is little attention paid to it by government and rightly so.
On the numbers I still do not understand what your point is. The number of people in the three towns I listed before are sufficient to cause concern for local residents whether there are sufficient jobs or not. We can expect over time that those pioneers who have made the trip here will report back that England is not the land of plenty they had imagined, but in the meantime the large numbers are likely to cause resentment.
I think what this story proves is that opponents of untramelled immigration are not racist — if they were then these white immigrants would not be resented so much as those of other ethnicities.
This point can be made even more obvious when you talk to those who have been here for a long time or who are born of immigrant parents — they recognise, more vividly than political correctness sometimes allows those who have been here more than a couple of generations, that immigration can be positive and historically has been, but that an irresponsible immigration policy for as long as has been the case in the UK can play into the hands of those extremist groups who benefit from poor relations between communities.
Those Brits who appear different by dint of their skin colour have a lot more to lose than the majority of us who have white skin if immigration leads to ethnic strife. When those who have benefited from Britain’s welcoming tendency start to warn us of the level of immigration, then I think we need to start to listen (and I’m not just talking of the Michael Portillo and Michael Howards of this world).
Mark Adams has eloquently put the case for completely open borders on this site before, and Dave and I have agreed that immigration should be restricted now to avoid trouble for the UK in the near future.
Now, as you said, this article isn’t really about immigration, it’s about genuine freedom of movement within the EU. I do welcome that aspect of the EU. If the EU could be about free trade and free movement of people then it would be what we signed up to. But as it is not.
The new countries that joined the EU in May (2005?) have a much stronger need for the sort of political and economic stability that have recently benefited Spain, Portugal, Greece and Ireland. But that will take a long time and in the meantime we will have large numbers of people coming here. I am not pretending to have the answer to that, but I do feel it is important to mention it.
July 5th, 2006 at 3:35 am
Impressions- there is unrestricted immigration to Britain.
Fact- immigration is highly controlled. To marry a foreigner, permission must be obtained from the Home Office. Although this provision may be suspended at the moment because of a legal challenge.
The cost of living in Britain is high so most of those coming from other EU countries will not be to afford to stay here long. The habitual residence test will prevent them from claiming state benefits.
July 6th, 2006 at 2:35 pm
Fact: Immigration allows a net increase in the population of 100,000+ per year
Fact: Illegal immigration, even when caught, is rarely resolved by the deportation of the illegal
Fact: Asylum is being mis-used currently by non-refugees to gain access to Britain and, like illegal immigrants, failed asylum seekers (read: chancers) are not deported.
I know someone who married someone and the process was painful and nasty, frankly.