Until recently my answer to that question would have been an unequivocal “No” and I still believe that that is the case amongst the party’s membership.
But when David Cameron made his speech in Scotland the other day, he attacked quite blatantly the legitimate concerns of his largest voting bloc.
The thing is, I really don’t know why he did it. There’s absolutely no logical value in making a poisonous speech that make angry a proportion of 85% of the population in order to placate a proportion of 11% of the population.
I am Conservative, and despite the tone of the speech, I will remain Conservative and proud of it: Cameron’s tone on everything else is table setting before the Conservative meal. But he’ll only manage to maintain this attitude so long. The Conservative Party is almost alone in the United Kingdom as a reasonable right-wing party. But if that were to change then I am sure the majority of blogging right-wingers would jump at the chance to join that new party.
I have written before, too, about the Campaign for an English Parliament and, quite frankly, I do not understand opposition to it. I’ve not yet received anything more logical than emotional responses to the question: Why don’t Conservatives in government support it? I know that a large proportion of the membership of the Tory party do and I know that the membership won’t leave the party over this one issue; but Cameron must know what dangers he is running with his membership. The EU was a big ask of the membership under Major; England is Cameron’s EU.
So why this outburst? Pox Anglorum’s excellent post that absolutely must be read.
September 24th, 2006 at 3:49 pm
You might believe you have transcended racial identity Gav, but the reality is most people have not.
He is a Scot who wants to rule the UK, he knows full well that an English parliament is effectively the end of the UK because it would hold such a disproportionate amount of power compared to the other members.
And because he is Scottish he doesn’t want to rule only England he wants Scotland too.
September 24th, 2006 at 4:58 pm
…The thing is, I really don’t know why he did it. There’s absolutely no logical value in making a poisonous speech that make angry a proportion of 85% of the population in order to placate a proportion of 11% of the population…
You have hit the nail on the head and this leads one to question Cameron and how equivocal he is. I’ve said all along that he’s just Blair in another form, without policies but desperately seeking power.
September 24th, 2006 at 6:26 pm
“I know that the membership won’t leave the party over this one issue”
“I know that the membership won’t leave the party over this one issue”
The point I think!
Until we all make it very clear that we will leave, not join and not vote for any party until it starts to address our concerns then nothing will change, in this instance Cameron believes he can get away with censuring the English in order to attract the Scots and Welsh, the shame is he is probably right. Our democracy is in our own hands, to exercise it, we must take it back from the political elites whether they be Tory or Labour.
September 24th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
“The thing is, I really don’t know why he did it. There’s absolutely no logical value in making a poisonous speech that make angry a proportion of 85% of the population in order to placate a proportion of 11% of the population”
“I am Conservative, and despite the tone of the speech, I will remain Conservative and proud of it”
Think you answered your own question there old boy. Ken has nailed it already really - you Tories are the political equivalent of the guy in the gimp suit getting whipped by the mistress - no matter how much it hurts and you know its wrong, you just cant bear to stop coming back for more…
And you silly boy, your Party wont support an English Parliament because the EU says we have to have Regional Government. Scotland and Wales fit into the Regional structure because they both have one Assembly - England however has nine Assemblies and therefore the Tory hierarchy must obey their masters and never ever go against this structure.
And as for this nonsense about a ‘reasonable rightwing party’ we both know if you REALLY meant that you’d have joined UKIP years ago. You will keep going back to Mistress Dave no matter how many welts he gives you because that’s what ‘Good Conservatives’ do.
September 24th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
Dave (first), That’s the big lie we’re trying to fight: England will not have any more power than Scotland. The power the English Parliament would wield would be within England and it wouldn’t matter if England were 7,000 times as large, it wouldn’t have any influence on Scotland any more than the Scottish Parliament effects northern England (except where it tries to take sovereign power over the Tweed).
The rest of you have made some points that I need to mull over. And I shall… My only first reaction is to say that UKIP, sadly, is filled with nutters (present company excepted) and that the Conservative Party’s membership is largely made up of good people. I also believe that a Tory government, whether Anglophobic or not, cannot fail to be better than a Blair/Brown or Ming government while a UKIP government is not going to happen because of electoral inertia.
September 25th, 2006 at 1:28 am
I would of course much prefer a Conservative government, but is Mr Cameron actually going to lead a Conservative Party and offer the country Conservative policies, or is everything going to have to fit in with an EU left wing socialist agenda? If so then it is Conservative in name only.
For those of us who wish to have the power to elect our law makers returned to the people, a Conservative government is no better than a Labour government, for those of us who wish to see the powers of government V the people rebalanced, a Conservative Government is no better than a Labour government.
Whilst we remain members of the EU and the majority of our laws are not made in Westminster the party of government is immaterial. Unfortunately until this situation is addressed the Conservative Party is not going to be in a position to be honest with the voters, and is only going to offer false hope.
I have not read the Built to Last pamphlet but I am willing to bet that nothing in it will address the real problems of the EU influencing our policies, that nothing in it will offer a way forward for Britian other than within the EU, that nothing in it will go against general EU polices or promise to break the ‘acquis communautaire’ or if it does it will be coached in such general terms that will render it meaningless.
September 25th, 2006 at 2:53 am
I think you are wrong Gav.
Technically you may be right although it would depend on the settlement, but its in spirit that it matters.
England = 85%+ of the British economy.
Scotland = 10%- of the British economy.
English parliament makes a law it has a big effect on Britain, Scotland makes a law and most British wont even notice.
That power imbalance is gonna break the system. And thats what the pro-EU people intended, they want break-up the UK to make us more likely to join the EU superstate instead.
September 25th, 2006 at 9:21 am
Dave, If the English make a law, explain how exactly that will impact the Scottish bearing in mind that it is devolved powers only: Health, Transport, Education etc.
Ken, I think you are buying Cameron’s mood music too well! He’s not released any concrete policies exactly because he wants people to think of him as moderate. That you and I consider “moderate” to mean “wet” doesn’t change the fact that this moderate-ness has translated into a poll lead.
I am quite sure the plan is that when the policies are announced, the mood music will have been so overwhelming that the left-wing MSM won’t pour cold water on the proposals in the same way as they did to Howard’s.
On the EU I think the only two actions he has taken on the EU so far are telling: 1) to withdraw from the euro-fanatacist EPP (whether that’s now or at the next EU Parliament elections); and 2) to appoint William Hague as Shadow Foreign Secretary. Of course the Tory policy is still not withdrawal, which I favour, but it’s better than LibDem or Labour offerings.
September 25th, 2006 at 9:34 am
Gav,
Call Me Dave has withdrawn the idea of leaving the EPP until 2009 - well there’s commitment for you. And Hague? Hague is no more a Euro-Sceptic than Gordon Brown - ‘no Eurosceptics in my Cabinet’ ever, remember?
How is it that there is some part of that sentence you can’t understand?!?
UKIP certainly does have more than its fair share of nutters compared to the Tories, that I can attest to personally. But unfortunately those ‘Good Conservatives’ in the Tory Party have sat back and let their leadership trample all over them AND their country for so long that they can no longer be called ‘good’ at anything but blind, desperate loyalty to Party before Country.
September 25th, 2006 at 9:36 am
…He’s not released any concrete policies exactly because he wants people to think of him as moderate. That you and I consider “moderate” to mean “wet” doesn’t change the fact that this moderate-ness has translated into a poll lead…
And that is the whole point. Can we have a leader who changes with the prevailing political wind to this extent [they all do to some extent]?
September 25th, 2006 at 10:44 am
The only reason Cameron is getting an easy ride is because he is articulating ideas of which the left-wing MSM approve, thus they won’t pour cold water on those ideas, however if Cameron were not to convert those ideas into proposals he will soon find the left-wing MSM will only be to eager to turn on the tap.
We are back to the suggestion that somehow Cameron will say one thing and then when elected do something else, sorry that will not wash, he basically asking us to trust him without the slightest indication that he will do the right things. We have already seen how much we can really trust him over the EPP turn around.
I am the first to accept that the Conservative party has a problem with the MSM and have long insisted that they really do need to do something about it, however all Cameron is doing is going along with the MSM adgenda rather than selling a Conservative adgenda, add in the socialist ideas from the EU and you really only end up with a different management team in government not a different radical Conservative adgenda, that will stand up for the nation state of Great Britain.
When offering polices on the EU, for instance, Howard’s promise to take back fishing waters into British control, you then have to address the question of what you will do if, or rather when, the other EU members refuse to fall in line. Howard position was he would take back the waters, when pressed he said if he could get no agreement he would do it unnaturally, but then diluted that by saying he would not break the EU treaties. Thus the Conservatives constantly undermine their own proposals because they totally fail to address this point, thus making their proposals nonsensical empty gestures and leaving the door open for the left wing MSM to create the impression the party does not know what it is doing.
September 25th, 2006 at 11:35 am
I voted UKIP last time but I had intended voting Conservative at the next General Election. Not any more. I refuse to vote for any party that expresses anti-English bigotry.
If Cameron’s lucky he might manage to double his representation in Scotland from one seat to two.
But the loss of swing voters like myself will cost the loss of several English seats that the Conservatives would have won.
I don’t follow the electoral logic. The Conservatives have to win England if they are to win. I believe this and the earlier UKIP gaffe have already cost the Conservative Party the chance of an outright win. Continue in this vein and they won’t even manage to achieve a hung Parliament.
September 25th, 2006 at 12:47 pm
“Howard position was he would take back the waters, when pressed he said if he could get no agreement he would do it unnaturally”
Well, it made ME laugh anyway.
September 25th, 2006 at 3:33 pm
Whoops! LOL
September 25th, 2006 at 5:49 pm
The only reason the Conservatives are ahead in the Polls is because of the turmoil in the Labour party and the extreme dislike for Tony Blair. Doesn’t mean anything.