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	<title>Comments on: The United Kingdom of Orwellia</title>
	<link>http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2007/05/25/the-united-kingdom-of-orwellia/</link>
	<description>English, Rationalist and Liberal Conservative</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 04:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Gav</title>
		<link>http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2007/05/25/the-united-kingdom-of-orwellia/#comment-17857</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 17:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2007/05/25/the-united-kingdom-of-orwellia/#comment-17857</guid>
					<description>James refers to &lt;a href=&quot;http://gavinayling.blogspot.com/2006/12/regulation-of-investigatory-powers-act.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James refers to <a href="http://gavinayling.blogspot.com/2006/12/regulation-of-investigatory-powers-act.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">this post</a>.
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		<title>by: jameshigham</title>
		<link>http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2007/05/25/the-united-kingdom-of-orwellia/#comment-17837</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 18:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2007/05/25/the-united-kingdom-of-orwellia/#comment-17837</guid>
					<description>And I always return to your article [on your other blog] about the RIP Act.  Don't forget that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I always return to your article [on your other blog] about the RIP Act.  Don&#8217;t forget that.
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		<title>by: Gav</title>
		<link>http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2007/05/25/the-united-kingdom-of-orwellia/#comment-17833</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 06:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2007/05/25/the-united-kingdom-of-orwellia/#comment-17833</guid>
					<description>I knew I'd forget something, and you're right road pricing is one of the most obvious and dangerous erosions.

When I think of the tyranny of the majority I think of people with disabilities who, if the majority wanted to, could be 'euthanised' for being a drain on society. I don't mean to say that we should be giving 'rights' to the so-called oppressed minority.

Just because the majority wants something, doesn't make it right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I knew I&#8217;d forget something, and you&#8217;re right road pricing is one of the most obvious and dangerous erosions.</p>
<p>When I think of the tyranny of the majority I think of people with disabilities who, if the majority wanted to, could be &#8216;euthanised&#8217; for being a drain on society. I don&#8217;t mean to say that we should be giving &#8216;rights&#8217; to the so-called oppressed minority.</p>
<p>Just because the majority wants something, doesn&#8217;t make it right.
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		<title>by: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2007/05/25/the-united-kingdom-of-orwellia/#comment-17829</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 00:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2007/05/25/the-united-kingdom-of-orwellia/#comment-17829</guid>
					<description>Good post. I watched some of Question Time last night, these people like Bob Crow and Alan Johnson seem to truely believe in centralised control of all the people. Its scarey the way what would used to have been way-out attitudes are now treated as normal centre... Michael Heseltine wasn't much better.

I would like to make a few comments on your post though.
you say &quot;So long as the state can be trusted to pass laws that are in the common interest and, simultaneously, do not subject minorities to the tyranny of the majority,&quot;

Personally I'm kind of fedup of this talk about majorities tyrannizing minorities. The reverse can also easily be true, many dictators throughout the world have been supported by minorities suppressing a larger group, and we see with the way Muslims intimiated the British media with regard to  the Mohammad cartoons that even a very small minority can have a big effect on once treasured freedoms.
I know you said common interest, but as the balkanisation continues it may not be clear what that is.

-
Agree there is never an excuse to imprison 'us' without trial, 'Us' being citizens, but foreign nationals I'm not so sure...
You are not forgetting that Islamic extremists have declared war on us are you?
In World War 2, if a 'foreign national' German turned up on your doorstep in the middle of the night, you'd want the government to take some kind of action even without 'evidence' that he was planning to do you harm wouldn't you?
If someone bad from within Britain does something that the government needs to charge them with the police etc have plenty of ways they can pursue the case, but someone who arrives here from Afghanistan, where is this 'evidence' going to come from?

I think the rules need to be different for nationals and non-nationals based on the ability to get evidence.

-
Agree regards Jury trial, but another point is if the Jury are not able to understand the case then that is the fault of the government for the over complicated tax , red tape and whole bureaucratic system, so its very possible to solve the problem without scrapping Jury trial.

-
You didn't mention what I think will be one of the worst loses of liberty,  road pricing.
This with the combination of ID cards will mean the government can follow your every movement. No problem for most people but as you say, for some if the government gets tough they could make life hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post. I watched some of Question Time last night, these people like Bob Crow and Alan Johnson seem to truely believe in centralised control of all the people. Its scarey the way what would used to have been way-out attitudes are now treated as normal centre&#8230; Michael Heseltine wasn&#8217;t much better.</p>
<p>I would like to make a few comments on your post though.<br />
you say &#8220;So long as the state can be trusted to pass laws that are in the common interest and, simultaneously, do not subject minorities to the tyranny of the majority,&#8221;</p>
<p>Personally I&#8217;m kind of fedup of this talk about majorities tyrannizing minorities. The reverse can also easily be true, many dictators throughout the world have been supported by minorities suppressing a larger group, and we see with the way Muslims intimiated the British media with regard to  the Mohammad cartoons that even a very small minority can have a big effect on once treasured freedoms.<br />
I know you said common interest, but as the balkanisation continues it may not be clear what that is.</p>
<p>-<br />
Agree there is never an excuse to imprison &#8216;us&#8217; without trial, &#8216;Us&#8217; being citizens, but foreign nationals I&#8217;m not so sure&#8230;<br />
You are not forgetting that Islamic extremists have declared war on us are you?<br />
In World War 2, if a &#8216;foreign national&#8217; German turned up on your doorstep in the middle of the night, you&#8217;d want the government to take some kind of action even without &#8216;evidence&#8217; that he was planning to do you harm wouldn&#8217;t you?<br />
If someone bad from within Britain does something that the government needs to charge them with the police etc have plenty of ways they can pursue the case, but someone who arrives here from Afghanistan, where is this &#8216;evidence&#8217; going to come from?</p>
<p>I think the rules need to be different for nationals and non-nationals based on the ability to get evidence.</p>
<p>-<br />
Agree regards Jury trial, but another point is if the Jury are not able to understand the case then that is the fault of the government for the over complicated tax , red tape and whole bureaucratic system, so its very possible to solve the problem without scrapping Jury trial.</p>
<p>-<br />
You didn&#8217;t mention what I think will be one of the worst loses of liberty,  road pricing.<br />
This with the combination of ID cards will mean the government can follow your every movement. No problem for most people but as you say, for some if the government gets tough they could make life hell.
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		<title>by: Herbert Bauer</title>
		<link>http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2007/05/25/the-united-kingdom-of-orwellia/#comment-17828</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 00:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.gavpolitics.co.uk/blog/2007/05/25/the-united-kingdom-of-orwellia/#comment-17828</guid>
					<description>&quot;Every Step You Take&quot; is an excellent, but critical new documentary about video surveillance in Britain (it has just premiered at a film festival in Austria, coming to Britain / US soon):

http://www.EveryStepYouTake.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Every Step You Take&#8221; is an excellent, but critical new documentary about video surveillance in Britain (it has just premiered at a film festival in Austria, coming to Britain / US soon):</p>
<p><a href='http://www.EveryStepYouTake.org' rel='nofollow'>http://www.EveryStepYouTake.org</a>
</p>
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